Or will they continue to carry it, only time will tell. Would thinning it make it easier or harder to get a coat on before it tacks up? To darken the clear shellac, mix the amber shellac to it. Alternatively, maybe you can have someone mail you Zissner’s every now and then that they cut first? If you don’t want to add anything to the bottle a great alternative for thinning it out is to run the bottle under hot water or close it well and place in a bowl of hot water for just a few seconds. Problem is 99.9% technical grade (or 200 proof) is only sold at laboratory supply, and 95% pure grade called 190 proof grain alcohol is hard to find at many liqueur stores. Lowe’s usually carries Crown brand DNA, it has glass cleaner printed on the label. Shellac can be used over any stain except alcohol-base types and over any filler. javajake, Often we go to take that nail polish that we like so much and are find that it has dried slightly or has become thickened. Well the Woodcraft website says “Not available to ship to California” for the “Green” DNA… so strike one on that. Does anybody know if you can thin down shellac?for example the white,as it has gone quite thick. As an aside, I usually buy an aerosol can of shellac for quick touch ups and small projects. Or, as I do, you can mix your own. You take pure alcohol and intentionally add poison to it all in the name of taxation. Shellac is about right. :lol: :lol: :lol: Bulls eye makes a thinned version of the amber to apply as a first coat. To begin applying shellac, quickly ease the pad on and off the surface to avoid any blotchy spots. lbs of permitted solvent per year, the requirements are lower and within reach of individual. You do not have the tack problems with it. I am a fan of the thin it way down and slop on multiple coats with a brush method. I was going to use shellac on my next large project of building a pair of barn doors for covering up a large 60” wide opening in the entryway of our house into our library, which can get messy from time to time and we also want to use it as a guest room from time to time. So is it illegal to posses DNA or illegal to sell it to non-permitted persons? Questions like this make me so happy I moved out of that ShitHole state years ago. Thin light coats is the trick. Thank You x . Methanol works fine for thinning shellac, but it is quite toxic if you are around it for a long time breathing the vapors. Nothing ‘Anecdotal’ about suggested alternatives, sources offered, or how to use regulated solvents in CA?Color me insulted. :-), How do I know this? But they have always shipped to me so far. Step 2 Pour 1 pint of lacquer thinner into the can and mix it in with a flat stick. Most stores are sold out. In other words, you purchasing it out of state and bringing it back home may be perfectly legal. While gel nail polish will last longer than traditional nail polish, it … Buy 250 grams of shellac flakes, dewaxed and mix with 1 litre of meths (denatured alcohol). Another issue is due alcohol consumption taxes, it is most expensive shellac solvent to procure....- CaptainKlutz. Find one or maybe try an Ace or True Value Hardware store and get some while you can. And then there’s the subject of mixing up a batch of aniline dye… I prefer alcohol to water but at least water is a viable option here. My local Home Despot and Lowes no longer carry DNA in their paint department. I’m SOL??? I’ve come across many professional finishers, however, who believe they should be using shellac rather than the finish itself, a sanding sealer, vinyl sealer or a catalyzed sealer for a first coat. Shellac is sold in a variety of different colors. Fry’s Electronics sells quarts. cut would be 5 lb. The problem with using ethanol for dissolving and thinning shellac is that it’s quite expensive (think Everclear that you buy at the liquor store). If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Isopropanol is a little slower and as such flows a little better but still dries very quickly.Try it, you’ll like it. Never tried it...........like anything in woodworking/finishing applying shellac by hand takes practice. For example, adding 2 oz. But then so are you once the solvents have completely evaporated. I have zero connections here.4) try and get some of that stuff at Fry’s or another electronics supply house, but again, a lot of trouble to go through and pretty darn expensive5) try and find something at a farm/feed supply store. I have not experimented with other oils like BLO but Tru Oil is basically that. Don’t get me started… I really don’t want this to turn into a political thread though, but I hear you. What do you use shellac for? Due I think to population density. I use a magnetic stirring gizmo. backpacking stoves use either: - sealed canisters filled with butane/propane- white gas- unleaded gas. That puts a quart of thinned Zinsser at about $75 to $100 a gallon or so? SOL? But the standard stuff works for diluting premixed shellac, as it also has a blend of solvents. next »
The use of so much methanol is one reason that standard off the shelf DNA is not very good at dissolving shellac flakes.
Premixed shellac sprays have a shelf life - avoid any with a manufactured date over 1 year, or mix your own from flakes; A shellac finish is much easier to repair than other finishes (rub out, reapply a thin coat, sand flat, polish) Saw Mill Creek user Todd Burch has this to say: I've sprayed a lot of shellac. It’s all about controlling and taxing how environment is contaminated, not stopping it.Materials are never really ‘banned’. I have used both brands interchangeably without a second thought. Anyone can afford solvent waste pails, and flammable storage cabinet. We all know that sh!+ isn t allowed in the state of California because it is a known carcinogen in .000013% of the wooly bearded jellyfish that migrate past the state every 18th year in November. You could not be more wrong! It’s all part of the craft When the gets narrowed you just play the hand your dealt.I don’t think I’d try Ammonia it’s too nasty. What ya bring in, ya gotta carry, that is the rule. The best way though is to spray it if you can. The City of San Francisco refuses to stop the homeless from leaving it all over their city streets. Dec 1, 2011 #2 Denatured alcohol is not available in Canada either. Kind of sucks that I have to sit in traffic for 2 hours in pothole filled roads past gross polluting factory farms, get out of my car and then walk over 35 typhus infested homeless tents to get to the hardware store just to find out that the priority was outlawing rubbing alcohol. BTDTGTTS. I have experimented with Tru Oil on a couple of projects and really like the results but that’s for much smaller coverage areas. Question: Is the Kleen Strip ‘Green’ denatured alcohol sold in CA?It is the low VOC version of denatured alcohol.http://www.kleanstrip.com/product/green-denatured-alcohol. Just note that most of the shellacs you get are 3 or 4 pound cuts. Just have to read, and follow the rules. 1) Find an online lab supply that does not require CalEPA or federal EPA permit numbers for small quantity chemical shipments, and order tech grade solvents. The company has a complete line of ultralight, super high efficient burner tops that work on their fuel pods.. ISOPRO is made up of 20% propane and 80% isobutane. I like how it looks over dyed figured wood and really like the amber over torched pine. Depending on the use, there might be a better product anyway. Wood finishing folks are not only people having issues. Everyone who moved away from California to their utopia gimme a break all states have stupid rules and laws. ©2021 Verticalscope Inc. All Rights Reserved. -- Nathan, TX -- Hire the lazy man. I thinned the poly, and I can't believe how much easier it was to get a good finish with that. I thinned the poly, and I cant believe how much easier it … Behlen also sells Behokol, which is a blend of ethanol and couple of slow evaporation alcohols that help shellac flow out evenly. Which you are required to do, when you have a permit. But that’s not necessarily so. When starting out, you may want to stick with darker shellacs on darker woods (use garnet to spice up kiln-dried walnut) and lighter shellacs on light woods (blonde flakes add a hint of color to maple), but as you’ll soon discover, shellac can serve as an effective dye toner. This happens either because we did not close it properly last time or because it has remained uncovered for some time. I still thin these down to about a 2lb cut as it applies easier. - Big corporations frown upon you using their EPA permits for home projects, but it can be done as long you don’t get caught, or have understanding management. Here is Kleen strip DNA ingredients, with 50-55% methanol:.Here is Crown DNA, it shows 70-75% methanol alcohol:..Here is the green low VOC ingredient list, with 3-7% methanol:.BTW – the ethyl acetate and or MIBK is used as stabilizer. Would thinning it make it easier or harder to get a coat on before it tacks up? BTDTGTTS- Small companies have more lenient permits due lower usage volumes. Hughes Co., Inc. has a bunch of CA stores and sells the TechSpray brand of 99% IPA as flux cleaner.Green Products in Richmond, CA sells if for cleaning: https://greenproductsco.net/NuGenTec MAKES IPA in Emeryville, CA near Oakland? http://thecanadianschooloffrenchmarquetry.com/. -- For every expert, there is an equal and opposite expert. Did you try to find any?R.S. It has too much water in it, and prevent absorption of shellac into wood. Problem is 99.9% technical grade (or 200 proof) is only sold at laboratory supply, and 95% pure grade called 190 proof grain alcohol is hard to find at many liqueur stores. It has been a banned substance here far longer than DNA. is back ordered on there Shellac thinner? :(. If you want to find a list of permit holders in your area, it is on the CalEPA site. You can, of course, easily thin down a thick shellac. Shellac does best when applied in thin coats. How To Thin A Thickened Nail Polish. That works, too. Thinned shellac is recommended for sealer coats. The best source I have found for large volumes (gallons) has been feed stores who sell it as horse liniment.Methanol is faster than ethanol and totally useless. Knowing what I know about Cali, I’d think it’s readily available at the Flee Market. Glad i moved from California in 2001. Who cares if the liberals in California take away Denatured Alcohol. It would be a LOT of work to use it on larger pieces unless there is an easier way than rub it in hard in many (like 11 to 13) light coats. For a quick, thin, matte finish, flood the wood with shellac, then wipe off the excess while it’s still wet. Need to carefully check the MSDS/SDS on denatured alcohol (DNA) when you buy it.Methanol alcohol is cheaper, and many home store brands use 40%+ methanol. It may be for some, but not for me. But it costs anywhere from $750 to $1000 to have a single 55 gal drum of combustible waste hauled away and disposed of by licensed HAZMAT processor. Updated: January 20, 2017. So, the long and short of it guys is that anything over 151 proof (75%) and anything that is “denatured alcohol” no matter how they label it, is not available to the general consumer here. PPS – Knowing your alcohols is important when you hang around with a bunch of chemical engineers that serve ethanol blended drinks are parties. So when using thinned down blends like this, each coat will dry in under a minute, and the next coat can go on right … For any of these options, YOU will have to search and find what avenue works for you. I have used it for both brushing and French polishing and find it excellent. There is no sense in limiting yourself (Don W) - - - - - - - - Kenny in SW VA. Good question. At least three to four layers of …
They should rename them as a law free zone. I am using some amber shellac on a vanity, and having a hard time getting a good finish because it tacks up so quickly. Isopropanol is a little slower and as such flows a little better but still dries very quickly.Try it, you ll like it.- shipwright. I just don’t think all the trouble is worth it. What do climbers and hikers burn in their cook stoves? Redding also has a Home Depot, so out of curiosity I went there to see what they had. Powered by Invision Community. Violations can result in massive fines, and even jail time after lengthy legal trial. -- I collect hobbies. This is similar to what I pay for Kleen Strip Green DNA I use for thinning shellac?https://www.amazon.com/Isopropyl-Alcohol-Grade-Anhydrous-gallon/dp/B01MEGQ9Q0Gallons sell for $28- $30. Is labeling the difference between being able to sell the DNA in Ca.? Re: Thinning Shellac My experience with shellac flakes dissolved in isopropynol is exremely fast drying versus methyl. Go to the liquor store and buy Everclear. | Do Not Sell My Data
The instructions on the can will indicate that you can apply a water-based clear coat right over an oil-based stain if the stain has thoroughly cured. of flakes to 8 oz. 72 replies. It extends shelf life and prevents reaction with metal cans. Step 3 Pour the thinned lacquer into the spray gun and test it by spraying it on some scrap wood. SHELLAC RETARDER-The HOT Weather additive. As I said before, there are small volume exemptions (shipping) for lab grade materials, and these might allow supplier to ship a locally banned solvent to your door without raising any concern for contents. i am not a fan of the “high gloss” look. Multiple thin coats of shellac are more effective than OK, I’ve had a gallon of DNA for a some number of months, but haven’t been into a hardware store in the last 5 weeks because of foot surgery. PS – if you live in hot dry place like I do in Arizona, adding about 10-15% of 99.9% pure tech grade isopropanol alcohol (not the 80-90% stuff found in drug store) helps slow evaporation and aids flow out. They exist, if you look around the web. Because of its innate consistency, thinning water-based polyurethane is not usually necessary. That level of efficient heat has never been had by other compounds. I've thinned shellac with denatured alcohol and wiped it on before, to decent results. Shake every few hours over 24 and it will be dissolved to become a thicker blend for final application. He may not do as much work but that's because he will find a better way. Most commercial stove fuel is denatured alcohol. FWIW – Besides medical supplies, Tech grade Isopropanol is sold at electronics stores as cleaning agent. Any advice would be great! Most suppliers require shipments to be delivered to permit holders address, so don’t try to ship stuff home on corporate permit. Sure, per-ounce, it is more expensive than a quart of SealCoat, but very handy. I am using some amber shellac on a vanity, and having a hard time getting a good finish because it tacks up so quickly. Agree on the denatured alcohol for thinning, works well. Best solvent for shellac is and always has been ethanol alcohol, not methanol alcohol. Dissolving and thinning shellac Shellac flakes are dissolved with alcohol. Lower the shellac sheen to matte by rubbing lightly with #0000 steel wool and paste wax. I have noticed when I have ordered certain “hazardous materials” from Amazon, they will have a disclaimer stating something to the effect this item cannot be shipped to all zip codes in Ca. For best application results thin shellac before using. I can’t find any definitive answers anywhere. I already had almost 2 full gallons so this should last me for awhile. I know that logic would suggest that if one is illegal, so is the other. Some really small folks are allowed to use standard solid waste (hehe). I have used and in some applications prefer isopropanol which is readily available. You can post now and register later. I thought it was DNA, but could be something else. You cannot paste images directly. :-(0). Making shellac is a simple process whereby we dissolve flakes of shellac we buy in crunchy flake form into 190 proof denatured alcohol, which we either buy through license here in the UK or we use Methylated spirits, which is denatured alcohol with an added violet colouring and any of a number of other additives that make the Meths undrinkable and even poisonous … Before applying the shellac ‘condition’ your brush by dipping it in solvent and letting the solvent run off. After all that I’m not sure I even want to risk bringing it in the next time I go to visit family in another state. It is only banned for sale to individuals who do not possess proper permits.Which means average homeowner can’t get it from hardware store any more. That s just silly pine chopper. If you have a friend that owns, runs, manages inside a small company with EPA permit; ask them if you can piggy back some solvents on their permit. FWIW – Besides medical supplies, Tech grade Isopropanol is sold at electronics stores as cleaning agent. Guess that explains why L.V. Work the pad in gentle, irregular patterns rather than only going with the grain. (added after ethanol completely dissolved the flakes) I even keep some really slow evaporating n-butyl alcohol on hand when need to use shellac when it’s 100F in shop. Level sand if required. With the use of eye dropper, add small amount of gel polish thinner into the bottle of the gel polish. The solvents will be more expensive than a can at BORG, but you can get them.BTW – Just don’t attempt to buy anything on the Federal Homeland Security list of restricted materials, I.E. If the online information regarding Isopropyl is fuzzy, then buy some and try it (on scrap, not on a project). Joined Jan 12, 2003 Messages 32,641 Reaction score 1,033 Location Benissa, Costa Blanca, Spain. I always spray shellac (sometimes all over me, but that's another story). Thanks for that tip! Your previous content has been restored. Even if it’s not, that’s what I would do. I like shellac just because it is super easy to work with. Slows Shellac Drying, helps to eliminate brush marks, promotes a smooth surface, and minimizes orange-peel or over-spray when spraying. The reason it’s #1 I would think. I can re-coat in an hour or so or … Copyright 2020 The Wood Whisperer, Inc. The idea here is to overall keep it thin, while also laying down coats than can be built up. Like Paul, I spray, and hell yeah, damn happy to clean the gun , but I have read...the hand job guys... sometimes cut the shellac with rubbing alcohol (contains water which evaporates slower) to slow the dry. So it isn’t a good idea to use methanol unless you are working with a good exhaust. Level sand if required. The extreme of “this and everything else is known by the experts of the state of California to cause the moon to explode” aside, it sounds like time to set up a still, and to make some fellow shellac fan friends. While possible, distillation is not going to be a cheaper solution. Try making pyrotechnic devices in Peoples Republic of Kalifornia.You have no idea the complexity of EPA laws until you make something that goes boom, shipping weight of 50lbs, and it is full of various poisons. To remedy this, thin it with lacquer thinner. Merely an effort stating how to execute or perform a certain task" . Pasted as rich text. The challenge is paperwork, and costs of permitted waste disposal. For finish coats, thin 1 part 4-pound shellac with 2 parts alcohol. This $30 gadget allows me to pour the ingredients in a plastic beaker, drop in a magnetic stirbar and walk away. of shellac resin dissolved in a gallon of alcohol. When mixing shellac from flakes or buttons, you can scale down the ratio of cut to make a suitable amount. Fry s Electronics sells quarts. I do love a good excuse to drive to the bay area and visit Fry’s. Sorry, but this statement is NOT always true in today’s greedy low VOC EPA mandated world? In about an hour it mixes the shellac completely. Your link has been automatically embedded. They had DNA, so I bought 2 gallons. A 5-lb. -- Paul M ..............the early bird may get the worm but it’s the second mouse that gets the cheese! Kills the nubs and bumps. There are a bazillion feed stores around me here in the heart of Central California. Have you tried a. camping store ? And the shelves were bare of DNA. drug making, explosive making, etc). Hmm… what about this?https://www.mohawk-finishing.com/mhk_cds/product_msds/M650-0057.pdf, -- Half of what we read or hear about finishing is right. We all know that sh!+ isn t allowed in the state of California . Clear editor. Are they just selling out what they have? You can thin the shellac by adding solvent; this will make it easier to lay down the shellac. Let the lacquer dry on the wood for 30 minutes. BTW – DNA is not ‘banned’ in CA. In fact not only did I find a substitute (Isopropanol horse liniment) even though I don’t need one in TX but might be a better option than DNA anyway. I used wet/dry P400 on my last project. This method is alcohol free and easy. With a permit number (your’s or some else’s), you can drive down the street to local lab supply house, and bring home a case of gallons of alcohol. — Bob Flexner. August 30, 2010 in Finishing. In general a "2 Pound Cut" is a good place to start. × So to reduce the cost, which is largely the result of taxes, some methanol is often added to make the … By far the number one selling fuel for backpackers is called ISOPRO. Latest Blog Entries |
No. Definitely worth a try. Ooh, that I will try; never thought of that. of shellac resin per gallon of alcohol). There are a bunch of others as well. Haven’t read the latest CA rules on alcohol, but for the other industrial solvents that CA ‘banned’ from home use in past; the rules are that only an CalEPA permitted facility may buy, store, or use regulated hazardous substances; unless there is exemption granted. LJ will not be held liable for the actions of any user. × Should I just live with Zinsser at full-strength (don’t really want to do that) or switch to another easy-ish finish like wipe-on poly? To lighten the amber shellac, mix clear shellac to it. Use denatured alcohol to thin shellac; use alcohol or ammonia for cleanup. If you want to use DNA banned for personal use at home, you have to either follow EPA law and get a permit, or skirt around the laws one of several ways already mentioned. After the shellac dries, a light scuff-sand will leave an excellent surface for the poly to grip. Maybe I should just stock up. Great question. That’s just silly pine chopper. I am a fan of the thin it way down and slop on multiple coats with a brush method. Maybe if you are not willing to try alternate sources? Great question. You also thin liquid shellac with alcohol. Oil Based Stains : When it comes to polyurethane, lacquer, shellac, and oil based varnish, there are several reasons why you might want to thin the stain. Home Depot carries Clean Strip DNA, it has fuel printed on the label. Not worth setting up the HVLP for that (uhg, I hate cleaning it). 1 2
Common Finishes That Might Need to Be Thinned The traditional finishes include lacquer, shellac, oil-based polyurethane, and oil-based varnish. Next dip the brush in shellac then tap it against the side of the container to unload the excess. Latest Projects |
Terms of Service